What’s in it for them is the question that shifts marketing from persuasion to service. Joe Polish explains that entrepreneurs build stronger businesses when they understand another person’s desired outcome, create value before asking for anything, earn trust through genuine connection, and use marketing to attract people they are qualified to help.
In this episode of The COO Solution Podcast, host Derek Fredrickson sits down with entrepreneur, marketer, and Genius Network founder Joe Polish to explore the question that shaped Joe’s approach to marketing, relationships, and service.
Take the Quiz: Find Out What Your Business Actually Needs
About This Episode
Long before Joe built one of the world’s most respected entrepreneurial communities, he was a struggling carpet cleaner trying to figure out why his business wasn’t working. What followed was a complete shift in how he thought about marketing, sales, relationships, and service.
In this conversation, Joe shares the lessons that transformed his career, from learning the difference between marketing and sales to building trust before making an offer. He also explains why generosity, genuine connection, and creating value for others have become the foundation of everything he builds, including Genius Network, Genius Recovery, and Genius Youth.
If you’re looking to build a better business by becoming a better entrepreneur, this episode offers practical wisdom that extends far beyond marketing.
In This Episode
[01:05] From Carpet Cleaner to Marketing Pioneer
Joe shares how financial struggle led him to discover the power of marketing and fundamentally changed his career direction.
[11:38] Marketing vs. Sales
Joe explains why marketing attracts qualified prospects while sales simply helps them make a confident buying decision.
[22:45] The Power of ‘What’s In It for Them?’
How one simple question became the guiding principle behind Joe’s business philosophy, relationships, and life.
[35:37] The Magic of Rapport
Joe shares practical habits that build trust, meaningful relationships, and genuine human connection.
[41:17] Building Genius Network
The story behind creating one of the world’s most respected entrepreneurial communities and why its mission has always been about building better entrepreneurs, not just more successful businesses.
[52:05] A Simple Practice That Can Change Your Network
Joe closes with a timeless reminder about handwritten notes, gratitude, and creating meaningful human connection in an increasingly digital world.
Why This Matters
Many entrepreneurs believe better marketing starts with better tactics. Joe Polish believes it starts with a better question.
When you shift your focus from getting what you want to creating value for someone else, your marketing becomes more authentic, your sales conversations become more helpful, your relationships become stronger, and your business becomes built on trust instead of persuasion.
What You Will Learn
- Understand the difference between marketing and sales.
- Build trust before asking for the sale.
- Create stronger relationships through genuine generosity.
- Improve your marketing by focusing on customer outcomes.
- Think differently about business, leadership, and human connection.
Action Steps for Listeners
- Ask yourself, “What’s in it for them?” before your next meeting, email, or sales conversation.
- Review your marketing and identify whether it focuses more on your business or your customer’s desired outcome.
- Look for one opportunity this week to create value without expecting anything in return.
- Write one handwritten thank-you note to someone who has positively impacted your life or business.
- Focus on becoming someone others trust before trying to persuade them.
Resources & Links
Questions We’re Asked About Customer-Focused Marketing
What does ‘What’s in it for them?’ mean in marketing?
It means beginning with the other person’s needs, desired outcome, and experience instead of leading with what you want to sell. Joe Polish uses the question to keep marketing focused on service, value, and trust.
What is the difference between marketing and sales?
Marketing attracts qualified prospects by educating them and showing how you can help. Sales helps those prospects make a confident decision after trust and relevance have already been established.
How can entrepreneurs build trust before asking for a sale?
Entrepreneurs can build trust by understanding the customer’s desired outcome, providing useful information, and creating value before requesting a commitment. Consistent generosity and honest communication make the eventual sales conversation more helpful and less persuasive.
Why does generosity matter in business relationships?
Generosity helps relationships grow from trust instead of persuasion or extraction. Creating value without immediately expecting something in return can strengthen a network, improve marketing, and make future conversations more meaningful.
What is Genius Network?
Genius Network is an entrepreneurial community founded by Joe Polish. It brings ambitious, ethical, and generous entrepreneurs together to solve problems, pursue opportunities, and become better entrepreneurs rather than focusing only on making more money.
New episodes drop soon. Subscribe to The COO Solution Podcast so you do not miss an episode. Connect with The COO Solution on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a founder who wants to build a business by creating more value for others.
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Full Transcript
[01:08] Derek Fredrickson: What is in it for them? And today I am sitting down with the person who made that question famous and whose story behind it, is one of the most honest and human entrepreneurial journeys I have come across. And I will say this up front. Joe Polish is a close friend of mine. We met in Strategic Coach with Dan Sullivan back in 2009 and I spent years inside his 25k Genius Network mastermind. So this conversation comes with real history behind it and I think that makes it even better.
[01:53] Derek Fredrickson: My guest today is Joe Polish, founder of Genius Network and Genius X, President of Piranha Marketing and co-founder of the podcasts, ILoveMarketing.com and 10Xtalk.com. His marketing expertise has helped build thousands of businesses and generated hundreds of millions of dollars for clients ranging from large corporations to small family-owned businesses. He has been featured in Inc. Magazine, Fortune, Forbes Success and US News and World Report and has spoken at Stanford University.
[03:14] Derek Fredrickson: His documentary Connected the Joe Polish Story premiered at the historic TCL Chinese Theater and his documentary, Black Star won the Audience Choice Award at the Sedona Film Festival. And what I love about Joe’s story is that it did not start with success, it started with struggle. And the question he landed on what is in it for them is the simplest and most powerful reframe I have come across for building a business, a community and a life worth living. Let’s get into it.
[00:01] Derek Fredrickson: Hey there, everybody. This is Derek Fredrickson here from the COO Solution and the COO Solution podcast. And I am today here with a very welcome guest, Mr. Joe Polish. The man, the myth, the legend. Joe, welcome to the show. It is so great to have you on.
[00:17] Joe Polish: Yeah, thank you. Good to be here, Derek. It’s been a long time. We’ve known each other for a really couple decades so yeah.
[00:22] Derek Fredrickson: It has been a long time. Just a couple decades. Yeah. Joe and I were talking just before we started the show. I’ve known Joe, I think it’s now 17 years, when I first met you at a strategic coach meeting in Toronto with Dan Sullivan and a number of other big names in the entrepreneurship, Internet marketing space, and then got to know you for a number of years and coach and then was a part of your genius Network mastermind, your 25k group with my wife Fabienne for a number of years. So Joe and I go way way back. And as I was saying, Joe is a man of many lanes. So we’re going to dive into a lot of different lanes here about marketing and sales and entrepreneurship and business growth and just general quality of business conversation.
[01:05] Derek Fredrickson: So I’m really looking forward to it. So, Joe, I think that you have a very interesting story about how you got started. So if I can, I want to go back back to your carpet cleaning days, and I want you to share a little bit with the audience. Just how did you get started in business? And then more particularly, how did you get started with marketing? And what was it about marketing that made you realize that this is probably the primary lever for you to really get going into your carpet cleaning business? And then it kind of opened up from there.
[01:34] Joe Polish: Well, you know, that whole term about necessities, the mother of invention, I guess. I learned marketing because I was broke as the carpet cleaner trying to run the small service business. And I, knocking on doors, doing sales, doing a lot of manual marketing. That’s what selling is, right? Selling is manual marketing. And marketing is anything that you put in front of somebody is marketing. So we’re all doing marketing. The question is it effective or is it not effective? Who’s it attracting? What’s the bait that you’re using? So my carpet cleaning days, I got into carpet cleaning because I didn’t really have many other options. It was a low barrier to entry business. A friend I had gone to high school with. When I came back to Arizona, right out of high school, I was struggling with addiction, so I left Arizona, which is why I live most of my adult life.
[02:33] Joe Polish: Except for a couple years ago, when I went to New Mexico to go to Mexico State University. But the real reason is I need to get sober for being a drug addict. And when I came back. I saved up a little bit of money. And I had a friend who talked me into starting a carpet cleaning with him and that partnership with him probably maybe a little over two months. And then I took his name off the business account because he was pretty much getting drunk every night. And I was at Portable Steam Cleaner. You know, not even the best carpet cleaner equipment, it’s the only thing that we could afford. And I was. I had a business card that said professional carpet cleaner. And I didn’t have many other options. So for two years I racked up credit card debt, worked my butt off struggling like crazy.
[03:20] Joe Polish: I think one of the most instrumental things that happened to me. And I told this story before. I written about it as I had another friend. Another friend call me up and invited me to go jet ski at Saguaro Lake, which is a lake right here in the Phoenix, Arizona area. And I didn’t have any money. So I said, I’m busy this weekend. I can’t go. And he just made this comment that this guy had a jet ski a really wealthy real estate investor. For whatever reason, I was like oh, maybe I could talk to this rich guy. And I can get advice on what sort of businesses I could go into in order to make some good money. And so I went on this jet ski trip. And I’ll give you the short story of the story. I was sitting on the tailgate of a pickup truck with this guy who was the wealthy real estate investor. And then my friend and this guy’s other friend, there are four of us, we’re out on the two jet skis that he had. And I said, so I hear you doing well in business.
[04:15] Joe Polish: And I have this, you know, I started telling him, my store, I have a small carpet cleaning business. And, you know, I’m wondering if you can maybe give me some advice on, you know, another business to go into where I could, you know, make better money. Because the business I’m in is really, you know, hard. And I hear you do really well. And he’s like, well, young man, is there anyone in your business is doing well? And I said, well, yeah, you know, there’s a couple companies in Phoenix that make over a million a year. And back then that, to me, that was like a lot of money. And he said, well, if there’s other people in your business doing well and you’re not, there’s nothing wrong with the business you’re in. There’s something wrong with you. And so in how you’re doing it. You know, in my mind, I’m like this is not the motivational speech that I’m just looking for. And so, I said, well, I’m certified, I’ve gotten trained.
[05:00] Joe Polish: I’ve been working at this for two years. I don’t do bait and switch advertise. I went to a whole series of things that I thought were legitimate reasons as to why this was a tough business. You know, hoping that he would tell me what I could do. And he said, well, he goes, you’re like most people, you think the grass is always greener on the other side. So he said, if you’re going to go into another business, you’re going to spend another six months, another year, another two years, learning the technical skills of another business, you could go out and repeat the same business habits that has caused you to be failing at this one. And I, really listened to what he was saying. It was bizarre because he delivered it in a way to where for some reason I wasn’t defensive about it.
[05:48] Joe Polish: I mean, it just ran really true. So I, you know, I’d written down what he had said. and I was talking with him, he said, what you need to do, you know, young man, you need to learn fundamental business skills. And if you learn how to make a business work. You can then take those skills to any business. But if you don’t. You’re just gonna bounce around and people you know, will spend a lot of their life just not ever learning what makes something work. He didn’t give me any answers to my marketing challenges because it was marketing that ultimately learning direct response marketing. How to write you know, education based marketing was really the best. Today I call it elf marketing. Easy, lucrative and fun versus hard, annoying, lame and frustrating. Everything I was then was half not elf.
[06:39] Joe Polish: But ultimately, you know, he just gave me a direction on how to think about learning a business. So I left that trip. And I drove home and I was very somber and I was in this piece of crap truck. But I thought, you know, I have a lot of personal problems. I’ve overcome a lot of challenges already. I’m a hard worker, though. I don’t rip people off. I care about people. There’s other people that don’t seem to care as much as I do. don’t even do as good of a job as I do. And they’re making more money than me. They obviously know something that I don’t. What is that? And so all of a sudden I reframe this business that I hated, that I wanted to get out of into a lab rat experiment. And I made a commitment to myself.
[07:21] Joe Polish: That I’m not going to get out of this business until I learned how to make it work. So all of a sudden it became like a testing ground. Instead of defining like I’m in this spot that I can no longer get out of. And so I became very intentional about studying what people do that make a business work. And so I started reading a lot of books. And through another friend, he was given a newsletter written by a crazy copywriter who ended up becoming a real close friend of mine named Gary Halbert. And it was all about how to write sales copy. And so I read that newsletter and I subscribed and through my own. You know, I read the book Influence and the book Influence really, you know, Robert Cialdini now we’ve known each other for over 30 years now. He’s, you know, it’s so cool. He’s in his 80s now.
[08:12] Joe Polish: And he just gave me another signed copy of his book “Influence” that said, you know, to one of my heroes, me, which I was like, how incredible how things come circle. But I learned so much from Cialdini and from reading, just how to persuade. So if you think of marketing and storytelling and you think of sales, influence and persuasion, it becomes a different thing because all of us have really horribles experience with marketers. And there’s a lot of them. Some of the most famous people that are, you know, quote unquote, influencers or whatever, they push it too far. You know, marketing done in the most effective ways is a relationship, bonding, engagement mechanism to present however you package your products, services, your experiences in a manner that is compelling to somebody. You know, Like my friend, I love marketing. You know, D. Jackson says a compelling offers 10 times more powerful than a convincing argument.
[09:16] Joe Polish: And before learning marketing, you know, I’m trying to convince everybody here, you know, hire me because of this, hire me because of that. And I just didn’t know how to present myself, how to package myself, how to, you know, take away risk, how to educate people. And I figured out how to successfully sell something nobody wants to buy because nobody wants to hire a carpet cleaner. There’s nothing.
[09:37] Joe Polish: You know, people want to go buy food, people want to go buy clothes, people want to go to concerts. You know, no one wants to buy carpet cleaning. No one’s hoping he’s in the corner, you know, then you have to call a carpet cleaner. So, you know, there’s some things are bought, other things have to be sold. So it depends. Yeah. So before my, you know, what I do today, it all started as a carpet cleaner. Trying to figure it out. But thank God. That’s why I kind of learned it. And I had to, I didn’t have any other choices. I was living on credit cards. And it was a really painful sort of existence. given the choice of eating or starving, I didn’t want to starve. So I just figure stuff out. Yeah.
[10:20] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah. Wow.
[10:22] Joe Polish: Yeah.
[10:22] Derek Fredrickson: Amazing. Yeah, Amazing. Amazing. I love the backstory. I love the mindset shift that happened as a result of seeking business growth. But it really came down to marketing. And I don’t know if you’ve coined this phrase, Joe. I use it from time to time. It might have been our friend Richard Rossi. I think it was him in a conversation. Maybe it came from you. And he was sharing it with us, my wife and I, and we were talking with him. He’s a good friend of ours. We’ve also known for, you know, 15 years, 15 plus years. And he was asking us a question about our business and saying,, is your service good? Does it change lives? Does it genuinely help people? And if the answer is yes, then the only problem that you have is marketing.
[11:01] Derek Fredrickson: But if you answer that question first, because if you get really honest with yourself, if your product is kind of not great, if it doesn’t change lives, it doesn’t offer the transformation that you say it does, then no matter how good the marketing is, it’s kind of like putting the lipstick on the fat pig type of a thing. And so I think there’s a real good delineation to your approach to marketing, which is very, I would say, heartfelt, authentic, transparent marketing. This is not about manipulation. This is not about strong-arming people, but it is the catalyst to get business growth, to get leads, to get clients, to get customers. And I want to take this a step further because you also have a really good delineation, which I reference all the time, and I always give it credit back to you.
[11:38] Derek Fredrickson: The difference between marketing and sales. There are some business owners that think like, marketing and sales is the same thing. And I’m like, no, no, no. They are very very different. Can you describe how you see the difference between marketing and sales?
[11:50] Joe Polish: Yes, selling. Think of it before technology even existed. Right? So even though you could argue that advertising is the type of technology, but I’m talking about like social media, the Internet, AI, you know, the current iteration. So in your door to door salesperson, right? If your job is a door to door salesperson, you knock on the door, someone else’s, or, you want to get their attention, Right. Then you would then talk about the benefits of what you’re offering. Maybe some of the features. But you know, features, what the product is or does. The benefit is what it does for the person using it. And you wouldn’t just sit there and smile and look good, which is what a lot of marketing. Oh, let’s try to build a brand.
[12:35] Joe Polish: Well, you know, unless you got the budget of Coca Cola or Apple or a giant company, you know, good luck with that one. This is for small business owner. So selling is what you do when you’re on the phone or face to face with somebody. Marketing is what you do to get someone on the phone or face to face with you properly positioned. So by the time they’re talking to you or one of your team members or visiting their website. Or looking at whatever you put out into the world. Like I said, anything you put in front of somebody is marketing. So by the time they’re talking to you or someone on your team, they’re pre interested, pre motivated, pre qualified, and pre disposed to do business with you. So a lot of people use the term marketing. It could mean anything. It could be network marketing, it could be your brand, it could be the color of, you know, your logo, it could be a variety of things.
[13:24] Joe Polish: But real marketing is positioning and it’s getting somebody by the time again they’re talking to you. So good marketing makes selling easy and ideally, unnecessary. And you do your marketing. Well a lot of times you just order taking. You know, I think when you guys first joined Genius Network, so back then it was a $25,000 a year group. Now we have, $35,000 a year and it’s, and we have $100,000 a year. And these are very high priced things. And a lot of people I’ve seen over the years, they so try to copy what we do and some even try to charge more money. And it’s like this, that’s an enormous amount of money for someone to spend. I don’t want anyone to spend money.
[14:19] Joe Polish: I want people to invest it if they’re spending it. If you’re gonna go drop $25,000 or 35,000 or 100,000 or 50 or whatever the amount, you better get some damn value for that. And secondly, no one wakes up every day and saying, you know, I really need to join an expensive mastermind group. I really hope I run into a salesperson. No one. Like we spend all day long hoping to avoid people that are trying to get our money. Unless, it’s presented in a way to where we seek them out. And we’re like to learn more because we all hate these swarming vampire feeling of predatory marketing. And so part of it is how do you position yourself as a helper, as someone that’s going to serve people.
[15:06] Joe Polish: So even when I was a Devereaux carpet cleaner, I learned either I’m going to be a world class copywriter that can weave together like the most incredible ad campaign with you know, powerful words. I don’t even half the time I’ll know the difference between a noun, an adjective and a verb is like I can’t spell. Even though I’ve sold well over a hundred million dollars worth of products and services of my own and certainly billions of dollars for clients. For my clients that we can even track. You know there’s a lot of money that is been you know generated. But what I learned is either going to be a world class copywriter, which I’m not.
[15:46] Joe Polish: But I’ve hired a lot amazing copywriters and I have people that work for me frankly better at weaving things together now with AI my God, the ability to exist what take us weeks can be done in minutes today if you understand the psychology you know as I learned to educate people teach people how to make a buying decision because the number one question in all consumers minds is who you can trust? And so your job as your marketer is to establish, you know, trust and rapport, and rapport is trust with comfort. They I learned that from my buddy Neil Strauss of all things when he wrote the book the Game Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artist which is kind of bizarre. I did a whole interview with him on this whole topic of like what’s the similarities. Well, any pickup line is bait.
[16:38] Joe Polish: Anything that you are putting out to the marketplace to see if it will either attract them or repel them, you want to sift, sort and screen. So a lot of your marketing needs to speak to who it is you’re able to help and it doesn’t need to speak to who you’re not able to help. Right? And so all of this put together is like when I started my first marketing campaign to carpet cleaners that was effective was a consumer guide to carpet cleaning. And it was read this guide and discovered. Seven questions ask a carpet cleaner before you invited me to your home. Eight mistakes to avoid when choosing a carpet cleaner, crawling critters and crud. A guide to the slime, grime and livestock that’s seeping, creeping and galloping through your carpet. How to avoid the for carpet cleaning rip offs. The difference between value and price. Which method cleans best and how to get your carpet cleaner at 100 percent guarantee the work. Now I have all memorized. I’m not looking at notes. I did it so many times that it was this instilled. Now it’s formulaic. So someone may think well I’m in the real estate business.
[17:47] Joe Polish: How does this apply to me? What are misconceptions? What are the mistakes to avoid.. It’s all very formulaic and now people use my AI clone to create instantly consumer awareness. Not instantly, but in a few minutes. Yeah, some proper dialogue. But it’s pretty close instantly compared to what we used to have to do because I, you know, I paid a copywriter eighteen hundred dollars when I was broke on credit cards. Because I believed if I had a sales letter. I heard Gary Halbert say any problem in the world could be solved at the right sales letter. This was in 1992. So there was no internet, there was no e-commerce, there was no social media. There was, you know, space advertising, yellow page ads. Some people don’t even. I’m genius youth today, a lot of people, genius youth, they have no idea. They’ve never heard of a yellow page ad.
[18:38] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, They’ve never heard of it.
[18:38] Joe Polish: . Yeah, totally crazy. We were doing all that stuff but I made my advertising valuable. Even if people, didn’t hired me,I taught them how to make a buying decision because I was the one teaching them how to make a buying decision. They trusted me because when they opened up my consumerist guide, it said, dear homeowner, choosing a carpet cleaner isn’t easy. Why? Because you’re bombarded with confusing claims. Simply bad information, near worthless methods, unqualified technicians. How do you ever find a qualified, competent carpet cleaner? You start by reading this guide. And with this information, you can make an informed, intelligent decision. And that’s what consumers want. They don’t want to make an idiotic,uninformed, scary decision. They want to make a intelligent decision. So if you empowered people basically teach them how to make a buying decision in a way that is not boring.
[19:34] Joe Polish: You know, the great marketer David Ogilvy said you cannot bore people into buying. You have to hype used ethically. Even the word hype has a negative connotation. But I’m going to say it this way purposefully. Hype used ethically is massive enthusiasm for what you’re selling. Hype used unethically is lying, misleading, bullshitting, exaggerating. So there’s a lot of marketing that you just know it’s bs. However humans want to believe things are going to be and so,there’s a lot of people that sell Hopium because a lot of people rely on hope and I very adamant about, it’s like sell the sizzle, not the steak sort of thing. It’s like, well, if you’re going to use sell the sizzle, make sure the steak lives up to what you’re selling. If not, you’re going to piss people off. And you don’t need to do that.
[21:27] Derek Fredrickson: Sole purpose of sales is to close said qualified leads into high paying happy clients and customers. Those are two different functions, two different activities, two different people to some extent. So I love the way that you separate that out as well. And I’m going to just put this in here primarily just to capture in the show notes to make sure people go. And I said before Joe, when were talking in our pre-warm up here, if you Google, audience, Google Joe Polish is selling evil. This video I have shared with every single client that I have ever worked with. All of our clients that we’ve worked with here at the COO Solution. If you are thinking about how to frame or how to shift your mindset about selling to make it more, in the words of Dean Jackson, more with more cheese, not whiskers. Right.
[22:12] Joe Polish: Yeah.
[22:12] Derek Fredrickson: And then the video is absolutely incredible. A five minute video on sales. It’s a cartoon video. It’s fun to watch. It will actually change your opinion about how sales is done and exactly to what you’re talking about. So I love that. I want to move on.So there’s so many Joisms in here. So I want to get to what’s in it for them. But my thought is that is the precursor to this is something that you’ve been living for a long time. I think you’ve just kind of codified it lately to what’s in it for them. Because I’ve always heard you say in the circles that we’ve been in, life gives to the giver and takes to the taker.
[22:45] Derek Fredrickson: And so can you frame a little bit about what’s in it for them, how did that come to be and how did you realize that this is something that not only is a great concept, a great tool, but something that like you started actually living your life by.
[22:58] Joe Polish: Well, thank you.So there’s that famous line from Zig Ziglar which is, you can get anything you want in life if you help enough other people get what they want. Now with the caveat you can help a lot of people get what they want that won’t do a damn thing for you. Some of them will take advantage. Some of them will abuse you. Some of them will steal from you. So you know, a combination of all of the. You know, I’ve read over a thousand books, you know, great books like How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie is a must read. This book. What’s in it for them? I never would have written that book. book had I not been influenced by Dale Carnegie. And what I thought of, you know, a lot is it’s not about winning friends and influencing people. It’s about winning the right friends and influencing the right people.
[23:45] Joe Polish: It’s about people that you’re aligned with. So what’s in it for them? Like I think what really helps solidify going back to Robert Cialdini, his book Influence, one of his principles. When he wrote the original copy of Influence, there were six principles of influence. Now there’s an update, the seventh one he added unity. But one of them is reciprocity. When you do things for people, we are naturally inclined to want to reciprocate and do things back. Now you can. And what’s interesting is that the marketer Jay Abraham is a dear friend of mine and one of a you know, before I knew him personally, I ended up getting to meet most of the people that I very much admired. Very let down by probably 75 percent of them after you meet your heroes
[24:29] Joe Polish: You know because you realize a lot of people do not live anywhere near the message that they preach on their books and on their podcast and their speeches. But the ones that do, I very much admire those people. And so there was a story in the original version of Influence that was written 30 something plus years ago about back in the day, before 9 11, airports were more free with what people could do. I mean, hell it back in the 70s, I think, you know, you could smoke on airplanes and read Playboy magazines in first class. Right. So that was before my time because I was a kid in the 1970s, even though I was born in the late 60s. So anyway there Hari Krishna would ask for donations in airports. So anyway, they’re Hari Krishna’s would ask for donations in airports and he tells the story because Robert Cialdini’s, he’s the most cited living social psychologist in the world right now.
[25:30] Joe Polish: And anyone that’s not read the book influence it’s just a must read if you’re going to be, you know, as a human. I mean it’s like the very first talk ever given to my Genius Youth group we’re now in two years of having started Genius Youth was Robert Cialdini. And we gave every one of the Yeah. Which was incredible. And you know, came to my office and he gave a talk to all the young people. And Warren Buffett endorsed the book. I mean he stayed at Warren Buffett’s house many times. Charlie Munger, you know, so this is a very highly researched book. What happened is the Hari Krishnas would be in the airport and they found that they got a better response from a woman than a man. And they would used to wear, you know, the Hare Krishna, the colored robes and stuff. And then they realized that, you know, scared people off because they knew that they were looking for donations. So they started wearing plain clothes.
[26:30] Joe Polish: And then they would have a little basket with flowers, and a woman would go someone and say, oh, can I put a, you know, I’d like to give you a gift, a flower on your either collar for a man or blouse for a woman. And then they would step back and they would ask, and then they would step back and they would ask would you give a donation to our cause a dollar or two. They had research hours in the airport and recording this. And what would happen is people would step back, they’d reach into their pocket most of the time. You know, eight, nine, eight out of ten times. It was easier for them to give them a dollar than to give back a gift that they didn’t even want. And so they would literally give them a dollar.
[27:16] Joe Polish: They would then go along the way, and then when they were out of sight of the Hare Krishna, they would pull the flower, plastic flower, throw it in the trash, go to their gate. But then about every hour or so, the Hari Krishnas would go to the trash, pull out all the flowers, and do it all over again, Right? and there was other examples that were in that book about reciprocity. But the thing that occurred to me is, like, if you can get money, giving something to somebody that they don’t even want and didn’t even ask for and frankly, is unethical and pressure, because that’s trickery. That’s using reciprocity to trick people. What if you actually gave something to somebody that they actually want and needed? Right? And if you leave with that and you’re thinking, what’s in it for them? What do they actually want?
[28:04] Joe Polish: No one wants to listen to a podcast, read a book, go to a seminar. Certainly some people do. But what is, Why do they want to do that? Because they want a result. They want a capability unless they’re reading a fiction book where they’re doing it for entertainment. They want entertainment. So humans are all wanting creatures. We all want something, and no one’s listening to this that doesn’t want something in hopes that this represents something. If somebody hires your company or does business with you, let’s see, they want a COO. They want to better, skilled and capable, right? If someone comes to me, there’s a variety of things. You know, who do I want to be a hero to? I want to help people that are entrepreneurs, and I want to help people that struggle with addiction. Everything that I do is I sell connection companies. So what, you know, people don’t come to me for ah grilled cheese sandwiches, they come to me for other stuff..
[28:57] Joe Polish: But if you’re going to go eat lunch, if you want a grilled cheese sandwich, you’re going to go somewhere because that’s what you want. So knowing that every human wants something and you want something, also, in order to get what you want, you need to make sure that your give is equal to or greater than their want. And if you think that way saying, okay, I’m really going to ask this person for something. How do It in a way that also is a value creation for them. Even if you don’t know what it is at the moment and even if you’re in a difficult situation, where you got to ask somebody for help but you really can’t think of anything. What you can do, you can give them courtesy. You can have a tone of voice. That’s appreciative.
[29:41] Joe Polish: You can say thank you. You can give attention. If anyone has ever sat with someone, when they’re dying, like a parent, a friend, a family member, anyone close to you. If you’ve ever sat with someone who is dying and you’re not going to fix it, you’re not going to make it go away. There’s nothing you can give them. They’re in suffering, they’re in pain. What you can give is, you can give your attention. You can give your presence. And a lot of people just simply aren’t present. They’re not trying to sell you what you need, and will benefit you. They’re just trying to get the things sold. And you can feel that. If someone’s highly manipulative, they can mirror it. Like, narcissists are really good and sociopaths are really good at mirroring empathy.
[30:31] Joe Polish: However, you build your spidey senses as you go through life and you know who’s real and who isn’t and the whole thing of what’s in it for them. If I’ve seen a lot of people that have taken the methodologies in my book and I try to make it easy for people to, I call them dominoes. Here’s some simple things that you can do to help you do it. And I’m gonna make this full circle because honest to God, the content of this book, in its current form would not exist without your wife, Fabienne Fredrickson.
[31:05] Derek Fredrickson: Oh my gosh.
[31:06] Joe Polish: Because she Interviewed me in 2010, I think it was.
[31:12] Joe Polish: And she, it has this unique skill of taking someone’s methodology and giving it a name. And she, like, I had gotten known as like this guy that knows how to, you know, create rapport with people by charming, disarming sarcasm, dirty jokes, being weird. Like, you know, I do this shit all the time. If I’m not, like, just go and make people laugh. You know, most people’s lives are, you know, painful and half the people in the world have aspirations and dreams and goals. The other half, they want a pain pill, they’re just struggling, they’re suffering. And so sometimes the best you can do for people is just, you know, bring some sunshine into their life. You know, if you see a stressed out server, you know, you can probably appreciate them or say thank you know, in a way that is genuine and you know, flattery works.
[32:10] Joe Polish: I’m not gonna who that flattery doesn’t work. However, if you’re kind of smart, you know, it’s bullshit, you know. So I’m not talking about fake flattery. I’m talking about being a genuinely caring human to the best of your abilities. And if you are not a very genuine caring human, you can actually develop the skill. And I often tell people, go volunteer at a homeless shelter, go volunteer animal shelter, go to a children’s hospital, go be of service, sit in on a 12 step meeting even if you’re not an addict, go to a open 12 step meeting which means they’re available, open to the public. Sit and listen to people that have human suffering and think of ways that, you know, just oftentimes a smile or the look on our face. Now you extrapolate that into business. Like how do you put smiles on people’s faces?
[33:06] Joe Polish: What is it do they actually really want and don’t sell something to people that isn’t going to benefit them. That like if you go to bed every night knowing that you are conscientious about other humans and you’re showing appreciation, gratitude and you’re being. This is not a dramatic thing I’m about to say here. Just be useful. Just be useful.And the more you and build a reputation of being a useful caring person.
[33:27] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah.
[33:38] Derek Fredrickson: It’s not that hard. Isn’t it? I think it’s Dan that says, I don’t know if there’s three or four rules of not rules of life, but like, show up on time, do what you say you’re going to do. And maybe there’s a fourth, but I always remember. Yeah.
[33:53] Joe Polish: So, yeah, he calls him the referability habits there. Show up on time, do what you say you’re going to do, finish what you start and finish what you start.
[34:01] Derek Fredrickson: Finish what you start. Yeah. I mean, that’s not hard. That’s not hard. Anybody can do that.
[34:06] Joe Polish: It’s basic. And here’s the thing, anyone that doesn’t do those things shows you that they don’t respect your time, they don’t appreciate you. And even if they’re super talented. You know, since you brought it up, I want everyone that’s listening to this to think of who do you know in your life that’s really skilled? One that comes to mind is this artist, amazing artist, but I can’t refer him to people because he doesn’t show up on time, he doesn’t do what he’s going to do. He doesn’t finish what he starts. Once in a while he says please and thank you, but it’s only when he really, like, needs something or wants something. And the guy’s talent, I mean, has skills that I wish I had, but the human skills, what’s in it for them? The ability to just sit and think what’s in it for them, approach them
[34:54] Joe Polish: You know, you can get anything you want in life if you help the right people in the right way get what they want. Doing things right versus doing the right things are two different things. So part of it is you want (inaudible). Yeah, yeah.
[35:08] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, it’s amazing, Joe, I love that. I love your just general outlook on these things because it’s. You’d think it. Not take it for granted, but you think it’d be like common sense. But I think sometimes in this day and world that’s not necessarily common sense. And you have to kind of reinforce it with just, you know, be kind, be considerate, have empathy, put yourself in their shoes, more or less. You know, in that regard.
[35:32] Joe Polish: Can I say this? So before we shift, because. So the magic of poor Foma, I went and found this.
[35:37] Derek Fredrickson: Oh my gosh, you found it.
[35:38] Joe Polish: Yeah. So this is. When Fabienne, your wife, was interviewing me, you know, got back in 2010, she went through this whole thing of what I do when I interact with people, what she was digging into, what are some of the elements, how do you connect with people? Because that’s what I don’t call myself a connector. People always refer to me as this connector. And it’s like all of us are connecting. It just depends on how are we connecting. Right?
[36:04] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah.
[36:05] Joe Polish: And so part of it is I was a very disconnected person growing up when I was that Johan Hari line. The opposite of addiction is connection. And I became an addict, and I was very disconnected. So I craved, you know, real connection because I had such little amounts of it. And I used, you know, chemicals and behaviors to try to feel good when I felt so hopeless and in such despair. So, you know, so I come at things like, of how to connect with people is suffering. So I went through this whole conversation with Fabienne and then at the end of it, she came up with. She had given words to the magic rapport formula is what she called it. She’s like, okay, Joe, what you do? I’m going to call the magic report formula. So we created that and then I created this checklist out of it. Right. So the. And this is all in. What’s in it for them?
[36:59] Joe Polish: So the first one is focus on how you will help them or reduce their suffering. Second is invest time, money and energy on relationships. I’d love to get that original interview that we did to see if I please. Yeah, I would love to see how closely because it’s almost like as far as I know, close to verbatim of what she had written out. And so I now call this TAMEE. What is it that you can spend? You can spend your time, attention, money, effort and energy. So it’s Tamee, spell T A M E E And so three, be the type of person they would always answer the phone for. Four, be useful, grateful and valuable. Five, treat others as you would love to be treated. Six, avoid formalities. Be fun and memorable, not boring. Seven, appreciate people. Eight, give value on the spot. Because I’m always like people like, hey, we should, you know, we should talk about that sometime. Why don’t we talk about it now?
[37:57] Derek Fredrickson: Exactly. I know that about you. Yeah. I’m going to text somebody right now. I remember that.
[38:00] Joe Polish: Yeah, yeah. unless you don’t want to talk to the person, then as eloquently as you can say, not my thing. Nine, get as close to in person as you can. Which is why I’m a big believer in you can say things with video and audio that you can’t convey with just text or email. And it’s funny because there’s a guy on social media that like, don’t send me another audio message. You know, they’re like, it’s. I could be in the middle of a meeting. How am I going to read it? I could be with my kids if you’re going to leave it, you know, and he just hates audio text messages, which is funny. But it’s, you know, it’s not right or wrong. It’s the amount of rapport you have with someone.
[38:39] Joe Polish: If someone that I really love and appreciates leaves me a thoughtful three or four minute stream of consciousness that is relevant to something that’s in it for me, then I’ll listen to it. If someone’s just rambling about some opportunity for 10 minutes on an audio I want to shoot myself. You know what I mean? So it totally depends on how it’s done. And it’s not modality. It’s the person, it’s the relationship. It’s the intention and the care. If you look at your phone and you’re like, you know, I’m like, annoyed. You get this versus woo, you know, because that’s what people want. They want more woo and less ah. And if you’re like ah, you know, you’re like, well, what does that person represent? They’re probably a taker. And I always want people.
[39:26] Joe Polish: If you owe them money and you’re like ah, they’re not the asshole. You’re the asshole. That pay them back the money. Yeah, don’t get mad at someone because you need to follow up with. Do what you say, you know, that sort of stuff.Yeah.
[39:42] Derek Fredrickson: I mean I think the people listening are trying to put themselves in one camp or the other and there might be some that are resonating with what you’re saying of what not to be like. I need to put myself in the other camp. Yeah. Shine the light on it, you know, and just call it what it is. But I think you break it down in such a way I have to find that podcast interview Joe, The Magic Rapport Formula. And Fabienne will be very pleased that you brought it up on our show today. So that’s amazing.
[40:06] Joe Polish: And I do want to say this too, and I know we are in a timeline here. It is always honorable thing to acknowledge people that help you clarify your thinking. Reach opportunities. I quote, people that aren’t even famous even if they’re dead, and no one would know. I always respect them. I always respect the generation of betterment. And when someone helps you. Yeah, I mean, she has a very unique skill of being able to listen to what somebody’s process is and give it a name, which then deepens the value of something. That’s what’s in it for them personality. Because. Yeah, Yeah.
[40:47] Derek Fredrickson: Because it totally is.
[40:49] Joe Polish: Yeah.
[40:49] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, she’s been doing that ever since. It’s one of her unique abilities, and she loves to do it because I think it gets to. I think it’s the French part in her that likes to, like, get under the surface and get, like, really in there. Like, what do you really do? Like, let’s get to the core. Not just, I’m good at connection. I’m good at rapport or I’m good at relationships. No, like, tell me what that actually means. What are the activities, the mindsets, the behaviors which leads me to your Genius Network.
[41:17] Derek Fredrickson: So I want to talk a little bit about your ability to connect, because you may not call yourself a connector, but people do see you as the ultimate connector, and I’m one of them, and I was fortunate to be in that group for a number of years. What prompted you to create Genius Network? In the beginning, and I know there has been this huge pendulum to what it is today. It’s unbelievable that the value of the room itself is worth its weight in gold. I know you have, you know, 10x of the idea based on you being in the room, like one elegant idea. But what did you see or not see in the marketplace or was it just more in the entrepreneurship community to bring that together in a Joe Polish, kind of like, what’s in it for them approach in building Genius Network?
[41:59] Joe Polish: Yeah, well, having been an obsessive compulsive entrepreneur, most business groups are just how to be a more effective workaholic. And I myself am a, you know, definitely struggled with workaholism because, you know, anything that you can’t stop can be put into the field of addiction. Because what is addiction? You can’t stop. You’re doing a behavior, and it’s very difficult to stop. In work. Workaholism, there’s a book on workaholism with the subtitle the Respectable Addiction. So you can be a successful entrepreneur and be admired because you make money. You can build a great reputation, people can admire you. It really feeds the ego if you’re effective at it. It blurs the lines of what is healthy and unhealthy.
[43:01] Joe Polish: So my whole thing going back to the original definition of an entrepreneur from the French guy John Baptist, say that the first recorded use of the word entrepreneur was in 1804. And he said an individual that takes resources from a lower yield to a higher yield, from a lower level of capability to a higher level of capability. So whenever we’re making something better, that is entrepreneurship. And there’s a lot of things that are sold that don’t make people’s lives better, they actually make it worse. And that’s where capitalism gets you know, thrown into, like, evil capitalism. Really. Like, how many things have you ever bought or used that have benefited your life? So, like, is it the thing. Is it the method, you know. The thing with Genius Network is I wanted to build a better entrepreneur.
[43:51] Joe Polish: And I don’t want it to just be about making money. However, most people are going to join a business group. In their minds, they got to justify, like, well, am I going to spend the time, money, attention, effort and energy? Is it going to bring a return? So you definitely got to deal with the money aspects of an entrepreneurial group. And plus, they’re business owners, so of course they’re going to want to talk about business, right? So I was like, how do I sell people what they want and give them what they need? That was my whole premise. Like, sell people what they want, make more money. Bestselling books, build a better company, scale your company, all the elements of what most people desire. But Genius Network today, and it was that back then also, but it’s refined, it is my job is to take people that are ambitious and ethical and are givers and curate the best group of other individuals. It’s a connection network to help them make their aspirations a reality.
[44:45] Joe Polish: That’s what I do. And that comes in many different forms and often not in the form that they think it will be. So we focus on themes, health, mental and physical wealth. Not just making money, but not losing money, which are two entirely different skill sets. I know people that are so good at making money and they don’t have a pot to piss in and they’re in massive debt because they. Exactly. And so, you know, the goal once you’re rich is not to get rich, it’s to stay rich. And there’s too many ways to be rich and then lose it. And I’ve certainly lost millions of dollars by dumb decisions in my life to where I, you know, think I’ve earned the right to speak to it a little bit. But the beauty is I never make the group Genius Network. I don’t want it to be known for me. I want it to be known for the people in the group. And we have some of the very best industry transformers, term I got from Dan Sullivan, you know, people who are the best in the world or one of the best in the world in their industry, and you bring them all together and by proximity.
[45:42] Joe Polish: That’s something that, AI you know, because I’m telling everyone now, you knowledge is a commodity. I mean, if you think you can come up with something smarter. If I think I’m going to sit here and say something that is so damn intelligent or so articulate.I mean. You can listen to great talks, great speeches, on podcasts, YouTube, you can dialogue with AI. What you don’t get though is, you know, a real hug, a real human connection, a real, you know, and so there’s something about social proof when you are in the vicinity of other successful people. There’s all parts of the entrepreneur, like the most successful people live with the highest levels of dissatisfaction.
[46:35] Joe Polish: My, friend Dave Keckage, who spent half his life in paralyzed in a wheelchair. From the paralyzed from the chest down, wrote these credos and one of them is, you know, well, there’s many that are good, there’s something about being with somebody in their presence that is never going to come through a screen, through a microphone. It’s. And I’ve witnessed this mostly in 12 step groups where you have people that have mutual suffering. I don’t use this as marketing for Genius Network because there’s not any way I’ve been able to figure out how to write about what I’m saying in a compelling way. It’s just something we do behind the scenes, which is, I know part of the job is to create a way for highly successful people. They get very little sympathy, empathy or genuine understanding at times from many people outside of their businesses.
[47:40] Joe Polish: They’ll be, oh, you know, who’s going to feel sorry for the rich guy with the beach house? It’s like, yeah, you know, some people that are wealthy, there’s all this bullshit about how wealthy people have taken advantage of others in order to be wealthy. You have to take advantage of it because a lot of people that have made a lot of money do take advantage of people. And so there’s always those stories. But all the programming for movies and everything, you know, they’re the villains, right? But you know, there’s a lot of poor villains and there’s best way to help the poor is to not be one of them. And there’s also a ton of stuff that, you know, wealthy people are constantly struggling with, but they don’t have a place to go to where anyone really understands those struggles. So I wanted to create a room for producers, not takers, but for makers, people that make use, right.
[48:44] Joe Polish: And so we try to curate that group to reduce human suffering and to help reach their ambitions. It boils down to what are your problems, what are your challenges, what are your opportunities? How do we help you minimize or eliminate your problems and challenges? And how do we help you reach your opportunities and how do we crowdsource that knowledge and do it together and then show evidence of physical success of that and bring people into a group and curate that sort of environment. And when you do that, you don’t need the. You don’t need to get them jumping up and down like trained monkeys and you know, loud music. And nothing against the people that do that. Some of them I know very well and they’re good at all that sort of stuff.
[49:30] Joe Polish: But like, most very successful people can come up with better ideas sitting by themselves in a coffee shop with a napkin and a pen than going to most seminars. So if you’re going to bring someone to an event, it better be some great food, great people, great discussions, great environment. And if you put that together and you curate things, then you have a genius network. And so I believe any problem in the world can be solved with the right genius network.
[49:55] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah.
[49:56] Joe Polish: And we ask people, do you want to be wealthier, healthier or elfier? And do you want more elk in your life? And some people come because they want to make more money. Other people has nothing to do with money. They just want to make their lives better. They want to better versions of themselves. And somehow I’ve managed to bring this thing together and it’s pretty awesome.
[50:26] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, exceptionally well. And kudos to the years that were in that group together. I remember your office there in Tempe, Arizona, upstairs, and you had the layout. I remember just the conversations, the connections. And I love the way that you described it because there was no brouhaha, it was no kind of fanfare. It was just genuine, real heart to heart, open, transparent, vulnerable, sharing of ideas, sharing of resources, sharing of opinions. And it felt really positive. And yes, you had some gems, you had some amazing ideas that were 10x multipliers for the business. But it wasn’t the main driver. It wasn’t the thing that was all about the making money. It was really about making a better life.
[51:08] Derek Fredrickson: And I think that’s what, you know, what I’m getting from this episode together is that that’s what Joe Polish is all about, is how to have a better life. Yes, it may be having a better business, having a healthier life, but whether it’s from you or the people that you know or the magic that happens when you bring that together. I think that is a gift. That is your unique ability, you know, to quote Dan Sullivan, in terms of what’s the one thing that you could be fascinated and motivated by the rest of your life? I think this is a real gem of it. And I know that you have other passions which we’ll include in the show notes in terms of, you know, genius network, genius youth addiction, the books and everything else.
[52:05] Joe Polish: I’ll say two things then. For one, I want to give people something to, you know, it’s a lost art today of, you know, people they’re going to delegate, abdicate their thinking to the machine. And one of the things we’re teaching young people is handwrite cards. Do not use AI to assist you. Don’t lose the ability to, for your thinking to deteriorate. Studies have already proven that is already happening at an accelerated level. And so like yesterday is the first time in years I spent the. I turned my phone off and locked it away. And I’m a guy that gets hundreds between 300 to 500 text messages a day. But that’s the only modality that I operate well with and I’m really considering changing that. So for one, one to10 handwritten cards, postcards, letters that you write, you don’t have AI prompt it and then handwrite it.
[53:05] Joe Polish: You use your brain because this is about preserving your ability to think. People are going to lose it. It will give you, an advantage and it actually works. And just thank people, gratitude, you know, people you admire, whatever, just get in the habit of doing that. If you do that for a year, take the weekend off a year from now, your network will be incredible. People are saying, how can I build a network like yours? You do like that. That’s what you do. Most people don’t want to work, they want to ask the question, but they don’t want to do the work. But make it meditative, make it therapeutic, make it enjoyable.
[54:02] Joe Polish: And when you see the responses, if you do this for like a week or two, I would encourage everyone listening. If you tried, if you did this five, just one a day or up to 10 a day, you know, some people, like literally I strive on many days to get 10 a day handwritten card, whatever. And doing it in a way to where it just like is enjoyable. Just see the responses. You’re not going to get that response from text, you’re not going to get that response from webinars that you’re running. You’re not going to get that response from emails. You will get it from handwritten cards. That’s first thing. The other is I have things that help people, you know, like askjoepolish.com I don’t charge for it. It’s my AI clone. Many of my books, thousands plus videos are loaded into it. I have people utilizing that to write business plans and to do stuff. And we also have the same type of thing at Genius Recovery if someone’s struggling with addiction. So if anyone is struggling with an addiction, I don’t pay myself anything. In Genius Recovery I literally had do it because it helps me with my own recovery and it helps other people and that makes me feel good. And so struggling with addiction, that’s geniusrecovery.org It’s an educational platform. There’s resources to help people that struggle with addiction.
[54:55] Joe Polish: Because that’s what I hope, you know, at the end of the, I don’t want my gravestone to say, I help more carpet cleaners suck dirt out of people’s carpets. You know, I hope I help that in a good way. But it’s really the addiction recovery stuff is meaningful to me and it’s really bad in the world in many ways. And you know, addiction is actually a solution to pain. So when I say addiction recovery, it’s really, you know, I get a real joy out of knowing I might be able to say anything that would encourage another human and make them live life a little easier because life is fucking hard for many people and including successful people. So you know, don’t for a minute think that, you know, someone has it way better than you. you often never know their struggles and even though it surface. So you know, all humans are going through stuff and it’s just about, it’s just connecting with each other. So that’s my long ass response to that.
[55:49] Derek Fredrickson: I love it. Thank you, Joe. Thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for everything. Of course. We’ll put all the links to all of the resources that you have available in our show notes and I will make a note to myself to make sure that you receive a handwritten note as a thank you for coming on this show. I didn’t know that. I appreciate that’s something that you shared as a I don’t even call it a hack, but it’s just an idea that people don’t, they don’t do it anymore. So I think there’s a lot of value in that. Yeah. And I just want to close with this. Like I said, I’ve known you for more than, you know, 15 years. And I really appreciate not only you
[56:24] Derek Fredrickson: As a business mentor, as a business person, as a friend, as a colleague. And I’m very honored that you took the time out of your schedule to be here on my show. And I know for a fact that I would not be where I am in my business today. And the journey that I’ve had from sitting in your room in 2009 in Tempe, Arizona, when I was working with my wife on client attraction, to where I am today. So just thank you, Joe. I really appreciate everything that you do and everything you’re about. It was a great honor to have you on the show. So thank you so much.
[56:50] Joe Polish: You are welcome. Thank you so much.
[00:20] Derek Fredrickson: What is in it for them? Four words, one shift. And if Joe Polish is any evidence of what happens when you actually live by it, the compounding effect on your business, your relationships and your community is extraordinary. The thing I keep coming back to from this conversation is that the question is not just a marketing strategy. It is a way of showing up. And it starts before the sale, before the pitch, before the follow up. It starts with the very next conversation you have.
[01:10] Derek Fredrickson: And you could take our free quiz at thecoosolution.com to find out where your business stands operationally and in five minutes you’ll have a clearer picture of where to focus. I will see you next time on the COO Solution podcast.
