A fractional COO for law firms helps a founding attorney escape the bottleneck by redesigning decision flow, clarifying ownership, strengthening accountability, and empowering the team. Instead of working harder inside the same founder-dependent system, the attorney gains operating leadership that creates time for high-level legal work, innovation, growth, and life outside the firm.
In this episode of The COO Solution Podcast, host Derek Fredrickson talks with Will Viner, founder of Viner Disability Law, about what changed when Will stopped carrying the firm’s daily operations alone and partnered with a fractional COO.
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About This Episode
In this episode, host Derek Fredrickson sits down with client Will Viner, founder of Viner Disability Law in Denver, Colorado, and a client of The COO Solution.
Will has spent his career helping people navigate Social Security disability claims, representing thousands of clients and building a successful law practice since 2012. Behind that success, however, was a growing challenge.
For more than a decade, Will had been at the center of nearly every decision, workflow, and operational responsibility in his firm. The harder he worked, the more the business could accomplish, until that approach stopped working.
Despite having sophisticated technology, AI tools, dashboards, and automations, Will found himself constantly interrupted, overwhelmed by daily responsibilities, and unable to make time to grow his business or be fully present with his family. He built a successful firm, but he also became its biggest bottleneck.
Will shares what changed when he partnered with Tracy, his fractional COO from The COO Solution, to rethink how his firm operates. Together, they began addressing the deeper challenges behind the firm’s growth limitations, from unclear responsibilities and founder-dependent decisions to delegation, accountability, and leadership habits.
He discusses the value of having a strategic thought partner, empowering his team to make decisions, improving client intake processes, and creating more time for high-level legal work, innovation, and business development. He also shares a meaningful personal milestone: returning from a family vacation without the usual anxiety of an overflowing inbox and unfinished work.
This conversation is about more than improving operations. It is about learning to stop being the person who runs everything so you can become the leader who builds something bigger.
In This Episode
[00:55] When Success Becomes a Bottleneck
Will describes how running a successful law firm for more than a decade eventually left him overwhelmed by decisions, interruptions, and responsibilities.
[02:22] Why Technology Wasn’t the Problem
Despite having AI agents, dashboards, and automations, Will explains why the real problem was how work and decisions flowed through him.
[03:44] The Moment Working Harder Stopped Working
Will shares the personal and professional turning points that made him realize he needed a different approach to growth.
[06:15] Why Will Chose a Fractional COO
Why hiring more employees wasn’t enough and how Will recognized the need to redesign the firm’s operational structure.
[08:43] Finding a Strategic Thought Partner
Will discusses the excitement, uncertainty, and value of working with Tracy to evaluate decisions and plan the firm’s future.
[11:05] Investing in the Foundation for Growth
The decision to prioritize clear responsibilities, accountability, and scalable workflows before expanding the team.
[12:18] Discovering the Real Source of the Bottleneck
How working with Tracy helped Will recognize that some of the firm’s operational challenges were connected to his own leadership habits.
[15:17] Returning From Vacation Without the Stress
Will shares how Tracy and his team kept operations moving while he was away, allowing him to return to an organized inbox and a more manageable schedule.
[17:19] Delegating Decisions and Empowering the Team
How the firm is shifting communications and potential client intake responsibilities away from Will while keeping him focused on high-level legal work.
[18:15] Creating Time to Work on the Business
Will explains how protecting time for AI, automation, marketing, and workflow development is helping him focus on the firm’s future.
[20:35] Why a Fractional COO Doesn’t Need to Be Full-Time
Will shares his experience working with Tracy through a 30-hour-per-month engagement and why her strategic involvement has been effective.
[23:30] The Value of Honest Leadership Feedback
How Tracy helps Will recognize his management challenges, improve delegation, and understand the habits that contribute to operational bottlenecks.
[24:55] Building Better Communication With Employees
Why having a COO who can gather honest feedback, support employees, and address management challenges benefits the entire organization.
[27:51] Will’s Advice to Founders Who Feel They’re Not Ready
Why feeling unprepared may actually be a sign that it is time for operational support, and how tracking daily activities can reveal opportunities to delegate.
[28:39] Understanding the Founder Dependency Audit
Derek explains how examining where a founder spends time can identify responsibilities to delegate, outsource, or systematize.
[30:25] About Viner Disability Law
Will shares how his firm helps clients with Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) claims, from initial applications through federal court.
Why This Matters
A successful professional practice can still be structurally dependent on its founder. When every decision, client issue, and internal question routes through one person, growth remains limited by that person’s time and attention.
Will’s experience shows why better tools alone do not solve founder dependency. Technology can support a strong operating model, but it cannot replace clear ownership, empowered decision-making, accountability, or senior operational leadership.
Bringing in a fractional COO changed more than Will’s workload. It helped create a firm that could continue moving while he was away, gave his team greater responsibility, and allowed him to focus on the legal work and strategic projects where he creates the most value.
What you’ll learn
- Recognize when success has turned the founder into the firm’s bottleneck.
- Understand why technology cannot fix unclear ownership and decision flow.
- Identify responsibilities that should move away from the founder.
- Use strategic operating leadership to strengthen delegation and accountability.
- Create protected time for innovation, marketing, and business development.
Action Steps for Listeners
- Track how you spend your time over the next two weeks to identify tasks that do not require your direct involvement.
- Identify where you have become the bottleneck in your team’s decisions and workflows.
- Evaluate whether your existing systems can support growth before hiring additional employees.
- Define clear responsibilities, expectations, and accountability for every team member.
- Delegate operational decisions so you can focus on the work that creates the greatest value.
- Seek honest feedback about your leadership habits and how they affect your team.
- Protect dedicated time for strategy, innovation, and business development.
- Consider whether a fractional COO could provide the leadership and operational structure your business needs.
Resources & Links
Questions We’re Asked About Founder Bottlenecks in Law Firms
What is a founder bottleneck in a law firm?
A founder bottleneck occurs when most decisions, client communications, approvals, and operational responsibilities still depend on the founding attorney. Even when the firm is successful, growth eventually stalls because the business cannot move faster than one person’s available time.
How can a fractional COO help a law firm founder?
A fractional COO can redesign decision flow, clarify roles, strengthen accountability, and help the team own work that previously routed through the founder. This gives the attorney more time for high-level legal work, business development, innovation, and family life.
Why are technology and automation not enough to fix founder dependency?
Technology can make work faster, but it does not resolve unclear ownership or decisions that still require the founder’s approval. A firm can have advanced dashboards, AI tools, and automations while remaining dependent on one person to keep work moving.
Does a fractional COO need to work full-time?
Not always. The right engagement depends on the firm’s size, team, priorities, and growth goals. A skilled fractional COO can create meaningful progress in limited hours by focusing on high-impact decisions, systems, leadership, and team accountability.
How does a founder know it may be time to hire operational support?
It may be time when the founder is constantly interrupted, works nights or weekends, returns from vacation to a backlog, or remains the final stop for routine decisions. Tracking every activity for two weeks can reveal which responsibilities should be delegated, systematized, or owned by someone else.
Subscribe to The COO Solution Podcast so you don’t miss an episode, and share this conversation with a founder, attorney, or business owner who feels responsible for every decision in the company. Sometimes the next stage of growth does not require working harder. It requires building a business that can operate without depending on you for everything.
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Full Transcript
[00:12] Derek Fredrickson: I’m really excited to welcome today’s guest, Will Viner to the COO Solution podcast. Will is the founder of Viner Disability Law in Denver, Colorado. He has represented thousands of clients with Social Security disability claims across Colorado, which means he has spent his career fighting for people at the hardest moment of their lives against a federal agency. That does not make it easy. Will is also a COO Solution client and that is why this conversation matters to me. A solo founded law practice is one of the purest examples of the founder bottleneck. The attorney is the product, the salesperson, the case manager, and the operations department. Will knows exactly what that feels like and he decided to change it..
[01:10] Derek Fredrickson: . Today we are talking about what it looks like when a lawyer stops running his firm day to day. What changed when a Fractional COO came in and what Will would tell another professional carrying the whole business on their back. Let’s get into it.
[00:03] Derek Fredrickson: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the COO Solution podcast. I am your host, founder and CEO of the COO Solution, Derek Fredrickson, and very excited to welcome one of our own COO Solution clients, Will Viner, to the show today. Will, welcome. Great to have you.
[00:19] Will Viner: Thanks for having me today. Very excited to talk with you.
[00:55] Will Viner: Yeah, absolutely. And obviously there were issues that precipitated our as working together in the initial aspect. And basically, you know, I wasn’t being interrupted all day long. I was holding a job I never even applied for. Right. Like, I was the bottleneck for the entire team’s sort of functioning and I was doing a million different roles and hats and it was successful for 10 plus years. And basically the harder I worked, the more work we could do. And so that model worked well for about 10 years, but were just falling apart with the ongoing volume that we had. And there was no amount of hours during the day that I could keep pumping it out to keep things alive and flowing and functioning.
[01:41] Will Viner: And were just really in a reactive posture and I had completely lost sight about you know how to develop and grow and what were even doing. I was just reacting to the day to day onslaught and that was flowing into my personal life as well. I just was working all the time and perhaps not as you know presentfor my family and my community and things like that and so it was sort of trying, which is odd because we were successful, you know, a year ago, we are now. But, you know, it was odd to feel sort of not satisfied and actually more, I don’t know, unhappy, but just like overworked. You know, we’re stressed with that. Right. Like, you know, and I had built AI agents, dashboards, automations, like the workflow. We were really good at it.
[02:22] Will Viner: You know, the tech was never the problem, but just the way that we had sort of arranged our system flows, you know,I was the bottleneck on there
[02:29] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah.
[02:30] Will Viner: You know, the median task block for me was about 20 minutes on an average day with 16 plus context wishes a day.
[02:37] Derek Fredrickson: Wow.
[02:38] Will Viner: You know what I’m saying? And, like, staff routed decisions all through me with no definition of done for the roles. And these are things that I’m learning, you know, like, if I don’t describe what done is, perhaps it won’t get done. So that was kind of the state of affairs. Again, were very successful and, you know, highly functioning on it, but just the amount of hours during the day, I was not able to sort of keep everything on the rails. And I was just feeling kind of upset about it.
[03:01] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah. Thank you for that. Thank you for sharing. I think it takes a lot of, you know, vulnerability to share that. Listen, I was the bottleneck, and there’s no. judgment there. And it wasn’t something that you had intended to create by design or intent. It kind of got created by default and kind of the intuition or the guidance to say that something’s going to be different. And I want to take that last point a step further because there might be some attorneys or business owners that would be listening and say, that’s just kind of what owning a practice is. It’s a lot of work. Right.
[03:30] Derek Fredrickson: And so at what point was there a pivotal moment or something that kind of pushed this over the tipping point that said, you know what, in your head, it doesn’t have to be this way, and kind of mark that decision to have things be different?
[03:44] Will Viner: Yeah. So, you know, lead volume was never really the issue. Like, again, like a success aspect. Like I mentioned, it never was an aspect of, you know, not doing well enough. It was. I think the tipping point was twofold. One, it was kind of the personal side. I needed to be better in my life. I needed to be more present with my family. And look, you as a lawyer, hourly contingency, you work super hard, and it’s never about how hard you can work, but eventually you’re going to reach a point where no amount of hours are available for you to work harder. Like, it just. That’s what happens. And so when you hit that, two things happen. Personal life, like I mentioned, I need more time with my family. Second is that we are unable to volume.
[04:29] Will Viner: increase our profit, volume growth, whatever. Because like I mentioned, there was no more time during the day for me to work harder. So it was definitely not a function of working hard. And I think that’s what sort of the transition Point was, is that, you know, I hope to use the COO to help review how we’re functioning to sign up more clients. So it was, how could I better at my life? And then how could I make more money by signing more clients up? Right. And again, I could not work harder to do that. I just literally could not work any harder.
[05:00] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, and I appreciate that. I was listening to a podcast the other day, and we’re talking about this exact same point. And oftentimes business owners, you know, when they’re working harder. Right. There’s only so much of Will’s time to go around. And I’m not suggesting this was the case, but I think you shared, you know, you were working quite a lot sometimes I think what happened at Business owners default to, you know, maybe working nights or maybe working some on the weekends to kind of make up for the fact that they’re so busy during the day. And that’s just a little bit of a band aid. It’s really just kind of like fueling the fire of what eventually will be more of the bottleneck or more of the burnout in some way.
[05:33] Derek Fredrickson: What really needs to change is the structural things of where you’re spending your time, energy, and effort so that you’re not having to make up the lost time and the nights and weekends to do the things that you should have been doing, you know, during the day in the first place. So I really appreciate that kind of awareness and the mindset shift that something needs to change. I want to talk a little bit about your decision to hire a Fractional COO with the COO solution, because as you, as, you know, more than anyone, you know, as somebody who’s growing a practice, you can when things start to get heavy, you can hire an associate, you can hire an office manager. You know, you chose to hire a Fractional COO.
[06:09] Derek Fredrickson: Why did you make that decision, and what were you hoping it would really unlock?
[06:15] Will Viner: I mean, look, you can’t delegate your way out of a system you design yourself, right? Someone else has to redesign it. And I think fundamentally that was the goal with this. I wanted to make sure that our systems and our workflows were set up to handle an increase of growth. It’s a fool’s errand to increase your volume without being able to manage it and do a really good service for your clients. And like I said, I started this company myself, and I’m pretty good, maybe, but I have, you know, look, these systems, the workflows and operations they will crumble after a certain point unless they are set up in an expert sort of scaffolding way. And again, my way worked good until a certain point. But you are limited in your growth by your systems.
[07:03] Will Viner: And that’s what was important for me, is I need to make sure that small things like, are we, am I tasking my paralegal? Am I being unfair to her, asked to do this? Should I expect more from her? Is it reasonable for someone else to do my emails? You know, and if it’s not, then what staff piece do we need to come in to cover that gap? Right. And how much should we pay and is there enough sort of income coming in and work for us to justify that? And these are sort of like operation questions instead of like, you know, getting more clients or whatever.
[07:37] Will Viner: And I really think after what, 12, 14 years of having set this up, like we needed that expertise to come in and to set us up, how we do things, to enable us to grow to the next level.
[07:50] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah,Thank you for that. I remember in the beginning it was looking for that kind of strategic thought partner, that guidance, like those questions that you were asking yourself and answering yourself in your own head, as opposed to having somebody else that could be that thought partner to bounce ideas off us. Is this a good idea? Should I be looking at it this way? That’s part of what I think Tracy’s been able to do, is give you the space to ideate and think things through, but also bring to the table some suggestions or some advice on how things could be done differently from her vantage point, which is really on, yeah, what you’re doing to grow and scale the business, but how are you doing what you’re doing in terms of structure and systems and process, et cetera.
[08:26] Derek Fredrickson: What was that like in the very beginning to have those initial conversations with Tracy and have somebody that’s in your corner to have that kind of second-in- command, strategic thought partner. What were some of the feelings. That you have some relief? Was it excitement? Was there a bit of fear kicked in there in terms of what was she going to do, what was she going to change, what was she going to uncover? What was that about?
[08:43] Will Viner: Yeah, so, you know, it was exciting and like you said, you know, a little stressful not knowing what to expect on there. But I was really enjoying initially and still the conversations with Tracy just about high level strategy things that before, as a sort of a solo practitioner with myself up here, like there’s no one else to really sort of run that by there’s also really no one to run that by in my industry. Like, there’s no one perhaps, doing what we’re doing, you know, at the scale, the speed, and, like, the focus on, like, the workflows. And so it was really helpful to have someone bounce ideas off, and it was obviously still helpful to have that. It’s stressful, though, because it is a big commitment and risk for us to take this move.
[09:26] Will Viner: Instead of going, like you mentioned, like, hiring an associate attorney, hiring an intake manager or something like that was a bigsort of, you know, uncertainty for me because it’s not, you know, not free. And you have to figure out if that’s good, you’re going to get value back from it. And every business owner knows we don’t want to pop money into things. That’s going to be sort of a dead end on that. So we’re worried about that, you know.
[09:47] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah.
[10:21] Derek Fredrickson: That’s great. I want to go back to the kind of decision point that you were sharing and Some of the hesitation or some of the, you know, kind of thinking it through, is this the right move? Is this the right investment? Was there a moment that you kind of stopped yourself and said, you know, maybe I shouldn’t be doing this? Or what was the thing that said, you know what? I’m going to commit, you know, based on the size of your business, based on the goals that you had, was there any sort of, like, reserve, maybe, like, maybe this isn’t the best idea?. I don’t know. Tracy. I haven’t worked with her fully. You know, I’ve only had a few conversations with Derek. What came up.
[10:52] Derek Fredrickson: I think it’s helpful for other business owners to realize that this is a big decision. I often say bringing on a COO is not. You’re not bringing on a transactional hire. You are bringing in a strategic, structural leadership change in how you run the company. That’s a big move.
[11:05] Will Viner: It was. And, you know, I felt that talking with you initially, you were hesitant in the sense that you wanted to make sure that it was the right fit for you guys as well, which I appreciate. In the sense that, are we big enough? Do we need this? Like, you know, it was clear you did not want to work with us if you were not able to bring value or to help us.
[11:28] Will Viner: And so I think that was helpful to speak with you, to sort of understand what my business was like and whether that was amenable to something that would be helpful to even have a COO, you know, and again, going back to the debate about whether I should hire another, you know, executive paralegal or another attorney or whatever versus hiring the COO, I think app based, it is the turning point was that we need to lay the rails for growth. And it’s going to be a lot more employees coming in here working, and if we don’t have assigned tasks and assigned workflows, Accountability and the ability for me to have insight of how this all works together, we’re not going to. We weren’t going to be able to do it, and we’re going to be unsuccessful with that growth plan.
[12:18] Will Viner: And so I do think hiring Tracy in the key was that we need someone to just look at a higher level and understand how everything’s flowing together so we can remove the bottlenecks and make this successful. Right? Like,
[13:00] Will Viner: You know you don’t have insight into yourself. It’s hard to have objective views of it. And honestly, I think that’s. what kind of the tipping point was. And look, we hired another attorney,and like nothing gets done like, there’s no. They’re not doing what I need them to do. I’m in the same spot. I’m just, you know, poorer because I have not done a good job of tasking, delegating what we need to do to them. And again, like, I wasn’t sure if it was fair. Like, am I asking too much? Asking too little? And those are the key fundamental questions that we need to have answered at our firm as we sort of move into the next sort of stage of this.
[13:35] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, Thank you so much for that. You know, I’ve heard this expression, I didn’t make it up, but you can’t give yourself a good haircut, right? you need somebody else to kind of see it from a different vantage point, different lens. And I think often, you know, you sharing, you know, the reality of this is a big decision, you know, based on budget, based on investment, you know, based on value return on investment, results, etc. And sometimes I kind of flip the coin and say, but also, what’s the alternative? Right?
[14:01] Derek Fredrickson: Because if you look at, you know, in your case, as you shared, you were, you know, there was only so much that could be in Will’s box to work harder and should you be spending a lot of time, energy and effort into some of these things that, yeah, maybe you could do it. But is it the thing that’s really going to move the needle the most of the business versus the other activities that really should only be in your lane as CEO? Right. I talk about this often on the podcast where I call it. It’s the identity shift of the operator to the true business owner. And sometimes when people create their business, they are the owner, but then they inevitably become the operator because they absorb all of the you know, how do we do this and how do we do that?
[14:36] Derek Fredrickson: And it runs through my head and it runs through this team in a fragmented system. At one point, we have to kind of undo some that to put the real foundation, the real building blocks in place to then have a true operator that can run the day to day, that allows you to be fully in that owner seat where you can see where the business is going in terms of what you want for growth, what you want for scale, what you want for the own use of your time in the business, etc. I remember in the beginning we talked a little bit about you shared some feedback with your family that you went on vacation and it was a different experience for them. They hadn’t seen you like that in quite some time.
[15:08] Derek Fredrickson: what got done in the business to allow you to step away for that time with your family and that vacation? And what was some of the feedback that they shared? Because I think it’s really helpful for the audience to know.
[15:17] Will Viner: Yeah, and this was actually relatively early on, maybe like two months in a month in to working with us, but I had to took a week off. And as you know, returning back from a week off is the most stressful anxiety nightmare every single time. Like, it’s impossible to sleep that Sunday night. Sometimes going back worried about how many inboxes and fires, what has happened. But I came back and my inbox was clean and on my calendar was just meetings, sort of a lineup of meetings of things, calls I needed to make, ahh fires I needed to just focus on. But there was no anxiety about the uncertainty and trying to, like, track through a thousand emails and to sort everything out.
[15:59] Will Viner: Like, Tracy and the team had spent the week when I was out having, like, meetings constantly, and she was constantly hammering on them to keep my inbox clean and make sure everything was sort of rolling forward. My family said that they’ve never seen me that less stressed or non stressed returning from vacation. So that was wonderful.
[16:19] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, that’s great. Thank you for sharing that. I think That’s a big byproduct of the work that we’re doing. Right. We want the growth, we want the scale, we want therevenue, the profit. But also, at the end of the day, we want to be able to enjoy that and spend that with the people that are, you know, close to us, family, friends, et cetera. So being able tohave that now is what I would say sometimes is your new normal. Right.
[16:39] Derek Fredrickson: When Will goes on vacation, you’re unplugged, you’re disconnected. When you come back, that level of stress is reduced because you’ve got the team and the process and the structures and Tracy as your COO that are, you know, handling that not only when you’re out, but also when you’re back. So it doesn’t feel like the overwhelm. Right. The mountain is not like, you know, built up and feels like You can’t overcome it You shared a little bit about what it’s like now, but. like, what are you doing now in the business that you couldn’t see that you could do before? And what are some of the things that you’ve stopped doing? Like, I just. I don’t do that. That was the old way of Will as the business owner, and now it’s different. I don’t do that.
[17:12] Derek Fredrickson: What are the things that you’re doing now that you couldn’t do before and the things that you’ve stopped doing that you always felt obligated to do in the past?
[17:19] Will Viner: Yeah. So it’s a work in progress. But they are helping out with emails. We get extreme amount of communications through phone, text and emails constantly. And you know, a majority of my day was spent just kind of in that responsive posture and they’re really helping out, trying to dig through that. They are also, they’re taking over on the potential client pipelineand that’s huge huge change in our business and we’re kind of midstream on that. But basically what they’re doing is helping to sort of assess and to, you know, to accept potential clients. So whereas before it all sort of flowed through me and then guess what, I’m on the bottleneck right now. We’re sort of removing myself from that process and enabling the staff and empowering them to make those decisions.
[18:09] Will Viner: And then I’m coming back in on a different sort of stage to help, you know, obviously do the high level legal work.
[18:14] Derek Fredrickson: Sure.
[18:15] Will Viner: So things like that, I’ve been able to sort of step out and then, you know, like what am I able to focus on now because of that? Like, well, you know, on Monday and Fridays I have those days essentially cut free from meetings to focus on high level things. Like for example, I’m doing, you know, making new applications, new workflows, automations, you know, using AI, constantly working on that. But I’ve got, you know, 16 hours a week blocked out for that, working on our marketing and our website stuff. Right?
[18:41] Will Viner: And it doesn’t always happen and I get about half the time blocked out each day for that. But you know, it’s a work in progress and it’s helpful to have those overflow days. And I know that, you know, our staff is still working on Wednesday, but I don’t have any meetings. But it allows me to take a more high level view instead of just being on this conveyor belt of anxiety, just eating the next thing that comes at me, I’m able to take those steps back. Yeah. So I don’t know. Does that answer your question?
[19:39] Derek Fredrickson: But I think it’s giving you a different lens at which you can see the growth of the company because you can see that these building blocks are in place and it’s going to support the growth with the different people that are going to come on board to help you do what you’re doing. And I want to ask this question, Will, if you don’t mind. So, you know, in the work that we dowith clients, there are different retainer models, right. With you, It’s 30 hours a month. Right. We have other clients that have, you know, different models based on their stage of business. And that’s the flexibility. Right. Because every business is different in that regard. 30 Hours a month may not sound like a lot.
[20:14] Derek Fredrickson: So what would you say to somebody who’s got a successful business, wants to grow, got to scale and say, like, but I need full time, I need somebody to be here 24, 7, because there’s just so much stuff that to get done. How do you feel it’s been with the model with Tracy, where it’s maybe, you know, six to seven hours a week with meetings with you, with working on projects, leading and managing the team. What has that experience been like from your perspective?
[20:35] Will Viner: Yeah, so far, so good on that part. I haven’t noticed anything. I haven’t noticed, like I haven’t been like, where’s Tracy? You know, it’s never once thought that She is autonomously, sort of managing that on her own accord, and I don’t notice it at all. I don’t really have much to say about it because I think it’s managing very well in the sense that she’s like, in and out at the right times. But I’ve never once been like, where is Tracy? You know, like, I wish you to talk about it, you know, like, I think she is figuring out where to sort of apportion those hours. You know what I’m saying? But I also feel like we’ve got a big project with Pipeline Revamp coming.
[21:16] Will Viner: You know so it’s like, I think we’re going to reallocate some time into that bucket, you know, and she’s, amenable to working on that. Regards and things like that. But it’s funny because I’ve never actually had a conversation with her about how she’d allocate her hours. I’ve never read invoices you send. I think you sent me timesheets about how she’s spending her time. Never looked. You know We assume that she’s doing a good job, and we know she’s doing a good job because guess what? It’s happening throughout the week. Like, she’s coming in at the right times. I’m talking with her. I know what’s up. She knows what’s up. So it’s never, ever been an issue for us. Yeah. And again, I think that’s a testament to her and to how she allocating those times, so.
[21:56] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, yeah, that’s greatThank you for that. I think it’s helpful for the audience to hear because. Yeah, I mean, I always say, you know, in our model, the Fractional COO’s on our team, like Tracy, they come, batteries included. Right. They check the box on how to do the work. Now, there’s intricate details about your business and your workflows and your team, etc, but when they come in, it’s not like, so, Will, what would you like me to do this week? It’s kind of like they come in and say, well, this is what I’m doing this week and this is what I’m owning. This is what I’m moving forward. And of course, there’s communication to stay on the same page.
[22:26] Derek Fredrickson: But sometimes business owners, I think, look at the lens of their business with the volume of everything that needs to change. All this stuff needs to be fixed. There’s all these problems with all this complexity. I need somebody full time. But at the end of the day, when you have somebody that’s very careful and strategic about where their time is being spent and the impact that time is going to make in the business, you can get a lot of value, you get a lot of momentum in return for a fraction, no pun intended, but a fraction of the investment, because you don’t need somebody nine hours a day, five days a week.
[22:56] Derek Fredrickson: You can get by on somebody that’s very appropriately matched based on the size of your business in terms of revenue, in terms of team, in terms of appetite for where you want to grow. So I appreciate you sharing that reflection as well for audience,. What do you like about Tracy? So, Tracy, we’ve been in this for a few months together. Obviously, you spend quite a bit of time together in our sessions, but also working her directly in your company. What do you like about the relationship? What is maybe something that’s surprised you or something that you didn’t know was going to be in store when you brought on a Fractional COO from us and started to work with Tracy?
[23:30] Will Viner: Tracy a lot, personally and professionally. We get along very well. We’re very well matched, and we hit it off right from the start, and we’ve got a good rapport, and we’re able to communicate openly, honestly, and get things done. And so that’s been wonderful. There’s been no, like, issues with that. And it’s fun to work with someone that you personally like, and so I think that’s a positive aspect of it. But, you know, the surprises that I found working. What I like about Tracy professionally is that she’s been helpful for me to sort of understand that, like, you know, about my own habits. It’s mainly about, like, the reflection back to how I have sort of bottlenecked these things, or, like, it’s my own insecurities about, like, having to manage and control everything, about getting everything perfect. Right.
[24:17] Will Viner: And so hard to delegate, hard to pass tasks off. And if we can’t pass the tasks off, then, guess what? We’re going to bottleneck, and people are gonna be unhappy because we haven’t got to them in time because I’m again, you know, limited on there. So Tracy has been really helpful for me to understand about a lot of these systemic issues at our firm were more, related to me and my inability to see clearly about, like, what we’re doing and where I should be focusing. One of the biggest things(Tracy) has helped me to understand is that, like, my time needs to be focused on potential client intakes. Like, that’s where our engine is, and so focus there. And, you know, obviously, the legal work is never a problem for me to focus on.
[24:55] Will Viner: Like, we’re highly motivated to do very well on that end. But, you know, the side of the coin is, like, that’s a big thing, and I need to be on top of that. Tracy also asks questions to my staff that I’m not able to ask. Right. And that’s another fun, interesting part, too, is that, like, you ask your staff, you know, like, what are you going to ask them? Hey, do you like me? Like, what do you like about me? You Know, what don’t you like about me? I don’t know if you’re gonna get an honest answer, and that’s kind of a weird question. Ask them.
[26:07] Will Viner: She comes with this, with professionalism that I just don’t have, because guess what? I’m a lawyer, and
[26:11] Will Viner: I don’t have HR skills or whatever, you know, Tracy is really helpful with that.
[27:25] Derek Fredrickson: So for those that might be thinking about bringing on a Fractional COO with the COO solution, it helps with their kind of decision making process. So having said that, whether it’s an attorney or another business owner that might be listening to this and thinking, is now the right time to perhaps bring on a Fractional COO, what would you say to them? What would you describe in the way that this has really benefited you and how would you help them make that decision for them if it felt like it was the right decision?
[27:51] Will Viner: You know, if you think you’re not ready, that’s the symptom. No one’s ready while they’re still the bottleneck. You know, I’d also say don’t hire the CEO to protect your time. Hire one to take your job. Like that’s what you should be focusing on. You know, how do you know what tasks you can sort of delegate out or take your job? Well, that’s what they’re going to help you do that. I also say take the next two weeks or month and track every single minute of your day. Just write it down on a Google Docs spreadsheet or whatever. Like everything you’re doing, you know, just run it through cloud or Gemini when you’re done and it will sort of analyze where you’re spending your time. And I think you’re gonna see that you’re burning through a lot of time.
[28:29] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah.
[28:30] Will Viner: Things that are non revenue producing or non productive. Right. So
[28:39] Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, that’s great. Thank you for that. That’s one of the things that we do with every client engagement. We call that the founder dependency audit. Where we look at sometimes, I don’t know if we did this exactly in this way, but we’ve been kind of refining the process where most clients will say, I’m working too hard,right? I have no time. And we’ll say, okay, show us your time, meaning document your time. And you said with things like what’s available now with AI and different tools, it’s very very easy to do that and give you a really really solid summary. I was listening on the train the other day a podcast called the Effective Executive by Peter Drucker. It’s one of the best books out there for like managing your time and building a business. And they were describing the exact same thing.
[29:16] Derek Fredrickson: If you say that you’re busy, if you say that you have no time, document your time. And that book is 30, 40 years old. So back then it was like, okay, where’s my 10 year? Write it down. I did this, I did this. Now there’s tools out there that can literally do that in real time and spit out for you with the click of a button, like you said, whether it’s Claude or AI and say, here’s where your time is going. These are the activities where you’re spending your effort. And you could look at that with the help of a COO and say, listen, okay, what’s necessary, right? What are the things that Will still has to be involved with, but what are the things that are the nice to have, right?
[29:46] Derek Fredrickson: Like those meetings, those chasing the team members, that admin and email, for example, that could be delegated, outsourced, systematized. Then you’ve got the stuff that’s in the middle that’s neither necessary nor nice to have. So we have to kind of figure out what to do. But that’s what that partnership is about to start to create different structures, different ways of where you’re spending your time, energy and effort. So I think it’s a great suggestion. So thank you for that. Will, for anyone that’s listening, wants to find out more about you and your business. I did the intro, as I said earlier, where people can find more about you, but tell us about your work, tell us about your law firm. Where can people find out more about you if they want to contact you, work with you, et cetera.
[30:25] Will Viner: Yeah. Great. So Viner Disability Law. We’re based in Denver, Colorado and we handle exclusively Social Security disability cases, Social Security Disability Insurance and Supplemental Security Income, SSDI, SSI cases. We handle cases at all levels of the process, from initial applications all the way to federal court. We’re 10th Circuit lawyers here in Colorado, although we handle all cases across the country as well, primarily in sort of the Mountain west here. Now, most of our clients were denied, you know, by the system built to wear them down. And our firm is built to outlast it. And we’re an all attorney firm. We are very motivated to fight these cases. We’ve done it since 2012.
[31:07] Will Viner: And you can find out more about us through our website, which is denversalsecuritydisability.com, also viner law.com or you can send me an email just williamvinerlaw.com anytime you have questions or you want to find out more about this.
[31:22] Derek Fredrickson: That’s great. Thank you. We’ll make sure to put all that contact information iin the show notes and will thank you. Thank you again for being a guest, sharing your story, sharing your experiences, sharing some wisdom about what it’s been like to work with us and with the Fractional COO model. So I appreciate your time, and it was a great conversation today. So thank you.
[31:40] Will Viner: Thank you very much again. I appreciate it. It’s an honor to talk with you about this. Thank you for introducing me, Tracy, again. Our business has been growing tremendously because of her, and we appreciate her very much.
[31:50] Derek Fredrickson: That’s great. Great to hear. Thank you for that. And that’s a wrap, everybody, on today’s episode. Thank you for watching the COO Solution podcast. And I will say see you on the next episode. Take care, everybody. Bye. Bye.
[02:04] Derek Fredrickson: He fixed it by bringing in someone whose job was to run the business so he could do the work only he can do. Intake roles, pipeline the day protected for the one project that unlocks everything else. None of it is glamorous. All of it is what gets a founder out of the bottleneck. If today’s conversation sounded familiar, hit subscribe so you never miss a future episode and share this with a professional who is still carrying the whole business on their back. And lastly, take our free quiz@thecoosolution.com to find out where your business stands operationally. Just five minutes and real clarity on where to focus. I will see you next time on the COO Solution podcast.
